70x7 Reasons to Be Both Catholic and Protestant (Transcript)

By Dave Nevins

The question is often asked, "Which is right: Catholic or Protestant?"

Catholics argue they have authority, based on their unbroken leadership chain to the Apostles.
Protestants say they have authority, based on their unmediated direct access to the Bible.

What you're about to read is an informal dialogue I had with Dr. Peter Kreeft on the historic healing happening within Christianity. I think you'll greatly enjoy this short, but powerful transcript, packed with insights.

For years I was unsatisfied with the Catholic vs. Protestant debate because I saw Christ profoundly in both of Christianity's two largest groups. It was especially puzzling when one group excelled in the other group's gifts! For instance, Catholics boldly announce they have the fullness of truth, yet Protestants are almost single-handedly debating with atheists. And Protestants loudly insist that following the Bible results in unity, yet there are over 20,000 Protestant denominations.

A few years ago when I was seeking God about this in prayer, I kept receiving a picture of a tree. The accompanying scripture was Jesus' comment that the Kingdom of God would grow into the largest tree. (Luke 13:18) Of course, this miraculously happened in history. But then the Spirit highlighted to me that the Roman Catholics are more like the tree trunk and the Protestants are more like the tree branches. Most importantly: it's the same tree!

This view of the Father's family tree helps explain the following:

1. Why Catholicism seems central, structural, immovable; and why Protestantism seems decentralized, flexible, and engaging. Both can suspiciously see each other as a kind of inadequate version of Christianity, mostly due to less familiarity.

2. How the tree is nourished by both water via the trunk and sunlight via the leaves. Catholics rely more on past revelation from others' encounters with God to support the church universal; while Protestant branches rely more on direct encounters with God to support specific, personal connection.

3. That for living organisms (like the church), essential things remain over time, but non-essentials might naturally expire. Thus for Catholics, out-of-date traditions fall off as dead tree bark; and for Protestants, denominations extending out too far fall off as dead tree branches.

The Spirit also showed me that the charismatic experiences (visions, healings, tongues) are God's miracle grow for the entire tree, and this is why places receiving them produce spectacular expansion. (Of the approximate 600 million Christians specializing in charismatic gifts, about 100 million Catholics practice these, yet this fact is often concealed within the tree trunk.)

I believe we lost this obvious perspective of the organic Church when the modern West slowly began worshiping its own mind, and became less animated by the Spirit.

In other words, it turns out that 'who is right?' is the wrong question. It follows that Catholics are right on some things; Protestants on others. And that's OK. Because we are not first about the laws of logic, but the life of love.

So what do we do with this?

We can start by giving God permission to release more of the unity we already have, most especially through manifesting common, supernatural prayer. The Spirit unites the Body.

It's always better to let the Holy Spirit reveal who we already are. (John 16:13) That's how I got this image, which was really healing to me. No longer do I feel oppressively pressured to promote second things over first things.

Enjoy this fascinating interaction!

• Language: English
• Publisher: BookBaby
• Release date: May 12, 2016
• ISBN: 9781483570402

Book preview

1. HISTORIC HEALING   [00:00]

Nevins:  My name is Dave Nevins.  I'’m here with Dr. Peter Kreeft, discussing some of the historic healing that is happening between Catholics and Protestants—building bridges where there haven’t been bridges before.  So, thank you very much for the visit.

Kreeft:  Well, not to be ungracious and correct you from the beginning, but I think that the bridges Pope Francis is trying to build are the bridges that have been there for 2,000 years.  He’s just trying to rediscover them.

Nevins:  And there you have it. Thanks for tuning in everybody.  We’ll be back again next week. 

Kreeft:  [laughter]  It’s not that easy.

Nevins:  That’s actually our theme today:  only a spirit can unite a body.

Kreeft:  Yeah.  It'’s a miracle.  And God started it, and he’ll finish it.

Nevins:  The topic of unity is often treated as if it’s a secondary thing, but by its nature it’s central, isn’t it?

Kreeft:  Yes it is.  But the unity is not some abstract doctrine or lowest common denominator.

It’s the personal presence of Christ.

Nevins:  It’s pretty simple. Christ is united.

Kreeft:  This is the genius of Francis.  He sees through ideas to the real presence of Christ in this miraculous event that’s happening.

Nevins:  He goes first for the center of the person, the spirit.

Kreeft:  Yeah. The mistake that the liberal media and conservative Catholic critics of him are both making—the identical mistake—is to try to fit him into an ideological agenda, a set of categories, a set of abstractions.  Just as you couldn’t do that with Jesus—he’s not a Sadducee or a Pharisee; he’s not a Zealot; he’s not a Herodian—He’s himself.  

So it is with this guy.  He’s great.

Nevins:  Why do you think we don’t see the church the way Christ does?

Kreeft:  We don’t see it because we don’t think concretely and personally first.  We think abstractly first.  We think, Here are the problems, the theological abstractions, now how are we going to overcome them?

What Francis is doing is saying, Hey, that’s your brother.  That'’s your alienated brother.  Embrace him.

And when you do that, then gradually the thoughts will follow.

Nevins:  Do you remember this video that we saw?  [A YouTube video of Pope Francis is shown—the link is available at www.davenevins.com]

Kreeft:  Oh yeah, yeah.

Nevins:  This is a video of Pope Francis reaching out to many of the Protestant Pentecostal and charismatic leaders at a conference.  And I’ll post the link in the YouTube description.  

And this is a really beautiful, anointed message.

Kreeft:  Mm—yes it is.

Nevins:  Francis goes from inside out, whereas the modern Western approach seems to be from outside in, doesn’t it?

Kreeft:  Yes it does.  And that makes the problem insolvable.  Because either you stick fast in your present ideas and resist change, and you’re faithful and you’re conservative, but you’re not going anywhere; or else you’re