Well I meant to have this episode out before my interview with Steve Hayes, but the timing was such that it made more sense to have Steve's episode published ASAP in case people were interested in participating in the ACT Bootcamp for Behavior Analysts (and if you do decide to go, use the promo code BOP to save $50 on registration). As such, there may be some references in my chat with Dr. Nick Berens about my interview-to-be with Steve. So I apologize for any confusing anachronisms. That said, I don't think the poor timing on my part detracts from the content that Nick brought to this conversation. If you're not familiar with Nick, here is his bio: Dr. Berens received his Ph.D. in behavior analysis from the University of Nevada under the supervision of Dr. Steven Hayes. He has served on several professional boards including the Standard Celeration Society, Nevada Association for Behavior Analysis, and the Association for Contextual Behavioral Science’s education special interest group.  Berens is an experienced applied researcher and has published and presented in the areas of core behavioral process related to language and development, the merits of the scientist practitioner model, Relational Frame Theory, Precision Teaching, and program evaluation. He has spent the last 10 years researching and developing the Fit Learning system of instruction.  This system targets areas such as basic classroom readiness, core processing speed, phonemic awareness, reading fluency, reading comprehension, language-based comprehension, basic and advanced mathematics, grammar, expressive writing, logic, problem solving, and Executive Functioning.  He and the Fit Learning team have implemented the system with over 1,000 children ages 3-18 years old.  These children have presented with a variety of skill levels and diagnoses including children diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome, learning disabilities including AD/HD, Dyslexia, Dygraphia, Dyscalcula, Auditory Processing Disorder, Non-Verbal Learning Disorder, and struggling learners, as well as, gifted students.  The Fit Learning system has consistently been shown to produce one year’s growth in 8-weeks. Nick in deep thought... ... and if the name Berens sounds familiar, in Session 44, I spoke with his better half as it were, Dr. Kim Berens, who described how Fit Learning was founded and what it's evolved into today. In this episode, Nick discussed the role of Relational Frame Theory as it relates to the work that they do at Fit Learning. As Steve did, Nick makes the case that derived relational responses are operants that are critical to language development. Likewise, we take a minute to discuss objections to RFT, and what he thinks about those who remain skeptical of this approach to understanding language development (and for those who are a little tired of all this ACT/RFT stuff, we'll have some other topics featured over the next few episodes). We didn't get too heavy into references, but Nick did suggest a few resources for folks to look into if they want to learn more: Dr. Eric Fox's online RFT tutorial. Learning RFT: An introduction to Relational Frame Theory and its Clinical Application, by Niklas Torneke, MD. And here are some of the publications by the Fit team Nick mentioned: School, Meds, and Moms- Using the Standard Celeration Chart for a Contextual Analysis of Behavior Putting the Precision in Precision Teaching- Using the Standard Celeration Chart for Ongoing Assessment Discovery Through the Lens of the Standard Celeraton Chart- Informing and Facilitating Inductive Intervention Strategies Assessing Functional Relations- The Utility of the Standard Celeration Chart I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did! This podcast episode is sponsored by the following: Constellations Behavioral Services. CBS believes that everyone can learn, everyone can participate, and everyone can communicate. They provide outstanding ABA services in both New Hampshire and Massachusetts, and to