In this Episode, Kyle sits down with Elizabeth Nielson and Ingmar Gorman, Co-founders of Fluence, Training in Psychedelic Integration. They are both therapists on the MAPS clinical trial for MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy for PTSD. 3 Key Points: Elizabeth and Ingmar are co-founders of Fluence, an online Psychedelic Integration Training program. If psychedelic treatments become available more widely, the fear is that therapists won't be as educated on how to handle their patient interactions based on the behavior of each psychedelic. Psychedelic Integration Therapy Training is so important. There are 3 phases to the MDMA for PTSD clinical trial. Phase 1 would be pre-clinical data about the chemistry of a drug, Phase 2 is where you begin to test your treatment in a patient population, and Phase 3 is where you get the data to demonstrate that the treatment is superior to a placebo and other treatments in general. Support the show Patreon Leave us a review on iTunes Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc Join our Facebook group - Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community. Navigating Psychedelics Show Notes About Ingmar Ingmar is a previous guest of the show He is a private Investigator for the MAPS MDMA trial He is a therapist and the Co-founder of Fluence About Elizabeth Elizabeth is a Clinical Psychologist She has a long history in working with clinical trials as a therapist She is part of the psychedelic education and continuing care program She does a lot of supervision and training for therapists The Trial The approval of expanded access by the FDA includes 50 people in total They are near the end of MAP 1 (out of MAP 1 and MAP 2) When they transition into MAP 2, it will be a little more refined MAP 2 is different participants than MAP 1 There are 3 phases Phase 1 would be pre-clinical data about chemistry of a drug and how it metabolises, if its poisonous, etc Phase 2 is where you begin to test your treatment in a patient population Phase 3 is where you get the data to demonstrate that the treatment is superior to a placebo and other treatments in general They are done as a double-blind trial, both the therapist and patient don't know if the patient is receiving the treatment or now Take-aways There is a lot of information that has to be shared effectively The therapists are very much in the lives of the participants on top of just the MDMA Instead of learning from the trials of what to do on a practical level, its about inspiring them to bring this as an actual treatment for people The multiple ways that PTSD can manifest and look like, and the may ways that MDMA can look like when administered, have some commonalities The deepening, the broadening, the way they communicate, can all be the same Ingmar holds the belief in the inner healing intelligence of all people One of the first things he does when he begins with a new patient, he says that this is something he really believes in, and his role as a therapist to help them in their own healing process and mechanism What Elizabeth wanted to learn, know and practice while she was going through school, isn't what she she thought it was until she found it She says this work really requires them to trust people's minds and experiences There is something that they tell their patients, “Don't get ahead of the medicine” - Elizabeth There is an interesting paradox between not knowing and following intuition, to having an actual method and following that There is a sweet spot between following a script to following your intuition as a therapist You want to trust that inner healer process of the patient, but also need to know when to intervene (usually from a safety standpoint) Fluence 3 days after Horizons, Elizabeth was at home with a cold, and talked to Ingmar that morning curious for a name for the project Fluence means, magical or mystical power or source of power It can also refer to the density of particles