Gil sits down for a one-on-one with game designer, teacher, and lecturer Marc LeBlanc to discuss some of his game design ideas, especially his 8 Kinds of Fun and the Mechanics/Dynamics/Aesthetics (MDA) framework.  NOTE: Towards the end of the episode, Gil's mic cable started to get unhappy. Apologies for the static! SHOW NOTES 0m50s: Looking Glass Studios, Ultima Underworld II, Thief, System Shock, Defense of the Oasis, Heroes Welcome 4m30s: Marc's 8 types of fun: Sensation, Fantasy, Narrative, Challenge, Fellowship, Discovery, Expression, and Submission. 9m31s: Wildermyth 11m28s: Nicole Lazzaro's 4 Keys to Fun, Self-Determination Theory, Quantric Foundry's Gamer Motivation Model, Jason VendenBerghe's Engines of Play 12m46s: Tim Fowers was on Ludology 165 - Fowerian Slip. Gil also mentions philosipher Roger Caillois and his book Man, Play, and Games. 23m52s: Reiner Knizia's classic auction game Ra. 31m34s: Spy Party 33m39s: Geoff discussed the Incan Gold experiment in GameTek 213.5. 36m46s: Gil's talk at Tabletop Network has been lost to tech gremlins. Fortunately, he gave the same talk online during the pandemic. 38m01s: Any mention of Caylus would make Ludology co-founder Ryan Sturm happy. 39m34s: Sharang Biswas was on Ludology 230 - Design Re-Verb. Geoff discussed his most recent game, Super Skill Pinball, on Ludology 268 - Pinball Wizard. 47m21s: 7 Wonders 51m08s: Slay the Spire 54m38s: Alan Moon's Oasis vs. Reiner Knizia's Through the Desert 56m05s: Return to Dark Tower, the Through the Ages digital adaptation, Pokemon Unite, Titan, Zach Gage's really bad chess. 1h00m02s: The Lynx web browser.