In this wide-ranging interview, economic anthropologist Jason Hickel discusses his most recent book Less is more: how degrowth will save the world --charting out an economic vision to a sustainable future. This is a deep dive into to the world of degrowth – a powerful critique of one of the most deeply held ideas at the heart of economics—endless economic growth. Jason argues that green economic growth is an illusion and that we need to abandon GDP growth as an economic goal—one that is even situated at the heart of the SDGs. He calls for a focused reduction of (economic) growth in areas are less socially useful and environmentally harmful—while recognising the economic growth needs of countries in the global south. Jason returns repeated to the question of environmental justice-arguing that we also need to address significant underlying social inequities if we are to undertake radical climate policy. A fascinating and thought-provoking interview. Dr Jason Hickel is an economic anthropologist, author, and a Fellow of the Royal Society of arts. He is a visiting senior fellow at the International inequalities Institute at the London School of Economics and senior lecturer at Goldsmiths, University of London. His most recent books are The Divide, and Less is more: how degrowth will save the world.