Two storied Jesuit institutions, the College of Holy Cross and Fordham Universities, have their first lay presidents. But Vincent Rougeau and Tania Tetlow are also both trained lawyers and each one respectively is the first Black president and first woman president to lead their institutions. Michael and Jeff welcome Vince and Tania to the podcast.Relevant Links:The future(s) of public higher education: How state universities can survive­–and thrive–in a new eraChoosing College: How to Make Better Learning Decisions Throughout Your Life by Michael B. Horn and Bob MoestaHearts Touched with Fire: How Great Leaders are Made by David GergenThe March of Folly: From Troy to Vietnam by Barbara Tuchman