Kerry Knudsen is a lichenologist currently based at the University of Life Sciences in Prague. He founded the lichen collection at the University of California Riverside, has 161 peer-reviewed publications on ResearchGate (and more elsewhere), and is currently documenting the lichen of the Chihuahuan Desert. Kerry has discovered over 60 new lichen species that were previously undescribed.Kerry also has an amazing background story, getting started in lichen later in life after a health condition derailed a long career in construction, forcing him to reset. We discuss Kerry’s unique journey to become a world-renowned expert not just in lichen, but in one of the most difficult genera (Acarosporaceae). We get into the life history of lichens, including the incredible serendipity that brings together a fungi and an algae (or cyanobacteria) to form a lichen in the first place, and how lichens form, reproduce, and propagate.Kerry describes recent advancements in understanding lichens, including the complicated microbiome of lichen that include other bacteria and fungi.I also ask Kerry a lot of questions intended to help amateur naturalists, and Kerry sets expectations on what amateur naturalists can see and identify in the field, and provides tips and suggestions for advancing lichen knowledge beyond field observation.We also spend some time discussing the impacts of wildfire on lichens, and some of the impact already being seen.Kerry is currently studying lichen diversity in the Chihuahuan desert in southern New Mexico, and has some surprising findings. And having spent time in the Mojave and Sonoran deserts, he has some interesting hypothesis about his preliminary findings.This was a great opportunity to talk to someone several rungs up the knowledge ladder from me, so, as Alie Ward likes to say on her entertaining Ologies podcast, despite my preparation and research, I had a lot of freedom to ask a smart person stupid questions. And I thank Kerry for his patience and detail in his answers.LinksPeople and OrganizationsAndre Breton - the founder of Surrealism kept a lichen collection just for the beauty and inspirationCalifornia Lichen SocietyRick Halsey and the California Chaparral Institute. I interviewed Rick in a previous episode, focusing largely on wildfire ecologySteven Levitt - University of Chicago economist who analyzed the ranching use of the Amazon rainforest. He had a podcast episode with his solution.Theodore Payne Foundation - Kerry mentioned working here for a periodUniversity of California Riverside (UCR) HerbariumBooks and Other ThingsA Field Guide to California Lichens - Stephen SharnoffMacrolichens of the Pacific Northwest - Bruce McCuneUsnea - Kerry mentions Usnea several times. Usnea is a genus with over 600 species, and is difficult to identify in the field.Support the show