In this episode Judith Germain speaks to Sue Evans about how leadership is service and the need for trust in leadership. They talk about the staying power of true leaders and how HR Heads have to have staying power to ensure that they remain principled and value based. Sue discusses the need for true integrity in leadership and the need to stand up for what you believe in for the greater good. Judith remarks on the need to be also seen to be doing the right thing. They discuss the concept of serve to lead and how military leadership is distributed leadership, the leadership of UK Councils, and the impact of Covid on women and leadership. This is an interesting conversation around leadership as a service and whether leadership is really gendered or not. For the Mavericks of Mass Creation Video Series, referred to in the podcast episode, click here.  Judith's websites:  The Maverick Paradox Magazine - themaverickparadox.com Company Website - maverickparadox.co.uk Judith's LinkedIn profile is here, her Twitter profile (MaverickMastery) is here, Facebook here and Instagram here.