0:00 -- Intro.2:09 -- Start of interview.2:54 -- Susan's "origin story". 4:18 -- Stephen's "origin story". 6:24 -- The origin and mission of the KPMG Board Leadership Center. It started with the Audit Committee Institute in 1999.12:12 -- The progress on board diversity and onboarding insights for new directors. Example: Board Readiness Program from LCDA. "Two important elements for new directors to think about: 1) to deeply understand the role of the board and how that differs from management, and 2) to deeply understand what the company needs and what is the value that the director adds that no one else either on board or management is currently providing."14:07 -- The path to the board and director performance. In Fortune 500 companies and beyond.19:19 -- Board oversight on climate change. In this NACD’s Governance Challenges report, Susan Angele offers areas for focus and questions to consider as boards enhance their governance to integrate climate change issues into risk, strategy, culture, values, and relationships with stakeholders.24:54 -- On whether "climate change" experts will be recruited for corporate boards.27:53 -- Lessons from the 2022 Proxy Season on ESG. To help boards understand and shape the total impact of the company’s strategy and operations externally—on the environment, the company’s consumers and employees, the communities in which it operates, and other stakeholders—and internally, on the company’s performance, KPMG offers a five-part framework: 1) Level Setting, 2) Assessment, 3) Integration, 4) Stakeholder Communications, and 5) Board Oversight.31:48 -- On the "anti-ESG" trend. "You have to recognize the political play on this."36:15 -- How should CEOs and boards approach the "S" in ESG, particularly regarding employee and social matters. From Edelman data: "Employees really want to be engaged in these issues."42:38  -- On BlackRock (and other institutional investors) stating that a new era of “shareholder democracy” is coming with technology increasing voting power and expanding voting choice for investors (see BlackRock's Voting Choice). Thoughts on this trend: "this is an issue of concentration of power." The proposed Investor Democracy is Expected (Index) Act.48:27  -- Final thoughts and recommendations for current and aspiring directors: "The job of a director is tougher than it was 20 years ago, but what we know from evidence today is that it is still a pretty good and important job (people are not leaving it)."50:18 - What are the 1-3 books that have greatly influenced your life: Stephen:I Came As A Shadow, Autobiography of John Thompson with Jesse Washington (2020)The Secret Lives of Church Ladies, by Deesha Philyaw (2020)Susan:Unsafe at Any Speed, by Ralph Nader (1965)The Silent Spring, by Rachel Carlson (1962)The Nancy Drew Mystery Stories.53:44 - Who were your mentors, and what did you learn from them?Stephen: Mom & Dad.Susan: her corporate governance mentor, Ann Mulé (ex corporate secretary at Sonoco, now at the University of Delaware).54:50 - Are there any quotes you think of often or live your life by? Stephen: "I always tell directors that one of the most powerful questions that you can ask is 'why' and 'how do you know'." [to practice cooperative skepticism]Susan: "The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed" [William Gibson, The Economist 2003] "There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women" [Madeleine Albright]56:03 - An unusual habit or an absurd thing that they love: Stephen: College sports.Susan: British royalty.58:12 - The living person they most admire:Stephen: his wife.Susan: Volodymyr ZelenskySusan Angele and Stephen Brown are Senior Advisors of the KPMG Board Leadership Center.__ You can follow Evan on social media at:Twitter: @evanepsteinLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/__Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under