In this episode, our co-founder, David Khim had the pleasure of interviewing David Mausolf, co-founder of Apex Growth. We covered a range of topics, including David's business trip to San Francisco, the importance of in-person meetings for building relationships, and potential topics to discuss on the podcast. We also delved into David's journey to building Apex Growth and the key milestones that got him there.David shared how he got into marketing despite originally wanting to become a data scientist. He eventually heard about Lyft and decided to join the company, despite warnings from his mentors and parents. David's best friend ended up working at Uber, and they found themselves competing head-to-head with each other. David describes his time at Lyft as a "crazy experience" that taught him to be scrappy and get the job done, even if it wasn't in his job description. He eventually left Lyft and worked at Fox and Disney before realizing he was repeating the same pattern of joining a company, analyzing the team, and leaving after a few years. David decided to start his own agency, Apex Growth, to create something of his own and avoid the cycle of joining new companies every few years.We discuss the limitations of attribution models in marketing and the need for an always-on incrementality testing framework. Many consultants charge a lot of money for data-powered attribution models, but they are often useless. The real question is what is driving value, and most tools do not answer that question. The process of measuring incrementality data can vary based on the channel or tactic used, and it takes a lot of work to understand how to assign credit to marketing efforts. There is no automated tool to do this, and it requires an always-on incrementality testing framework.We also discuss the challenges of operationalizing the findings and results of incrementality testing in marketing. The hardest part is the operationalization of the findings and results, as it requires socializing the results and pitching them repeatedly until they are accepted and acted upon. We also discuss the trend of marketing becoming too data-dependent, leading to a paralysis of analysis and a focus on small tweaks rather than big changes.Finally, we discuss the importance of taking time off as a business owner to build a self-sustaining entity that can run without the owner's constant involvement. No one will buy a company that is tied to the owner and cannot function without them. We advise entrepreneurs to focus on building a machine that can operate independently, which increases the value of the company and frees up the owner's time to work on other things.To learn more about these topics and hear more from our guest, be sure to check out the full episode. And don't forget to connect with our guest on LinkedIn and at Apex Growth.Thanks for tuning in!Topics Systemizing Leadership PatternsImportance of High-Level ThinkingCommunication and LeadershipChallenges Faced by AgenciesSolving Client’s problemsImportance of Executive StakeholderBuilding Trust with StakeholdersSEO AttributionRelationship Between Work and TimeShow Links Visit Apex Growth for amazing company internal-use toolsConnect with David Khim on LinkedIn and TwitterConnect with David Mausolf on LinkedIn and TwitterConnect with Omniscient Digital on LinkedIn and TwitterPast guests on The Long Game podcast include: Morgan Brown (Shopify), Ryan Law (Animalz), Dan Shure (Evolving SEO), Kaleigh Moore (freelancer), Eric Siu (Clickflow), Peep Laja (CXL), Chelsea Castle (Chili Piper), Tracey Wallace (Klaviyo), Tim Soulo (Ahrefs), Ryan McReady (Reforge), and many more.Some interviews you might enjoy and learn from:Actionable Tips and Secrets to SEO Strategy with Dan Shure (Evolving SEO)Building Competitive Marketing Content with Sam Chapman (Aprimo)How to Build the Right Data Workflow with Blake Burch (Shipyard)Data-Driven Thought Leadership with Alicia Johnston (Sprout Social)Purpose-Driven Leadership