BE THAT LAWYER LIVE!: International Business Development for Lawyers with Clare Fanner and Catherine O’Connell Part 2

Nathan Ohler: The Value of Legal Peer Advisory Groups: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Nathan Ohler discuss: Moving past the status quo to something different. Saving yourself pain and frustration by crowdsourcing your problems with peer advisory groups. Topics that come up frequently in lawyer peer advisor groups. Top benefits of peer advisor groups for the members. Key Takeaways: In peer groups, you can realize that your firm’s problems are not unique to you and those problems are solvable. Goals and tactical plans are related but are not the same thing. You need to have a tactical plan in place to achieve your goals. It is 2% about the goal and 98% about the tactics and habits. Finding and retaining talent now, both young attorneys and support staff, is different than it was in the past. There are many different ways that peer groups or masterminds - not every type will work for every person, but there is a benefit in actively participating in these groups. "It is just by BE THAT LAWYER

33 min listen

Karl Seelbach: Slow Down to Speed Up: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Karl Seelbach discuss: The way you do one thing is the one way you do everything. Building out and being consistent with expectations through SOPs and accountability charts. Setting aside time specifically to work on your business, not just in it. Hiring a coach to remove your blinders. Key Takeaways: Focus on the solutions - if something goes wrong, look at why and see how it can be fixed. Everyone and every firm is a work in progress. The little things that are sometimes forgotten are the things that need the most attention because they will make the biggest results. You don’t have to be the one to wear every hat. You don’t have to execute on every idea. Delegate what you can’t (or don’t want to) do. Attorneys are responsible for the work they file with the court. If you utilize AI the same way you would utilize a paralegal or law assistant, you can let the tech work for you. "You can't just keep doi by BE THAT LAWYER

35 min listen

Chelsea Williams: Personal Finance for Lawyers: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Chelsea Williams discuss: Why personal finance is so key to living a healthy, balanced life. The formulas for success at your firm and as an individual. The most common mistakes lawyers make around money. Tips for taking control of your money today. How to stay on top of your finances. Key Takeaways: Watch out for lifestyle creep. It doesn’t matter how much you make if you keep spending more than you bring in. Track your money. Having a personal budget is not restricting, it is setting a financial boundary. There are only two ways to change how much money you spend: you can trim the fat (even if it is just a rogue subscription) or through negotiating your expenses. It is the small things that bite into your spending. The biggest takers are Amazon, software, and subscriptions. "It doesn’t just stop at the money story, we have to hold all of our numbers accountable." — Chelsea Williams Take t by BE THAT LAWYER

29 min listen

Dennis Kennedy: Leaning into Technology: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Dennis Kennedy discuss: The intersection of the legal system and technology. Utilizing technology in ways that enhance the customer experience. Recognizing where you can free up time to do higher-level legal work. Why every lawyer should have a good, well-utilized CRM. Key Takeaways: Using technology for things like scheduling meetings, paying invoices, receiving payments, and other things not specific to the legal field is a great place to start if you’re unsure of where to begin. There are technology applications that can make your life easier and free up time to do the creative legal work that you want to do. Legal students and younger lawyers are used to using more technology and when they start working, at many law firms, it feels like taking a step back in their use of technology. Don’t let the fear of the unknown around technology stop you from leaning into and using it. "Figure out some probl by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

John Sciaccotta: Getting Involved and Building Relationships Everywhere You Go: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and John Sciaccotta discuss: Building relationships everywhere you go. Connecting authentically and building trust in the community. The time of building relationships and expected outcomes. Breaking out of the billable hour hampster wheel. Controlling your destiny. Key Takeaways: Get active, get involved, and maintain friendships within the legal practice. Wherever you have a relationship, give them a business card and tell them what you do. Tell them to think of you first. Make significant touches every single day - social media will allow you to do that easier than ever before. Step one is to be a great lawyer. But that’s not all there is to building your own business. You will need to understand more about business and sales than law school has led you to believe. It is never too early to start learning networking, relationships, and non-verbal communication. Th by BE THAT LAWYER

35 min listen

Erin Andersen: Having the Right Mindset and Tips for Hiring for Your Law Firm: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Erin Andersen discuss: Why lawyers have a hard time finding and retaining great talent. Hiring for personality and culture, not just skills. Hybrid work, salary transparency, and why you should be using LinkedIn to hire your next talent. Seeing hiring as an investment, not just an expense. Key Takeaways: Don’t just hire to fill a seat - understand your culture, understand your needs, and hire the right person for that right position. If a firm is open to training in certain areas, a personality fit may be a better hire option for longevity and retention as the person will be the right fit for your firm. Use LinkedIn (and other social media platforms) to scan your hiring candidates. You can learn things that they may not include on their resume, application, or cover letter. Many recruiting firms, like Erin’s, have a 90-day guarantee on your hires. Working with a re by BE THAT LAWYER

30 min listen

Matt Campobasso: Insights from a General Counsel: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Matt Campobasso discuss: Preventing problems before they have a chance to happen repeatedly. Assessing the risks you want to take when your company is growing and evolving. Pros and cons of private practice versus an in-house career. How to successfully network with a general counsel. Key Takeaways: Good prevention doesn’t eradicate all risks but stops many unnecessary risks. All risks aren’t bad, but you want to have the option of which risks you want to take. Working at a larger law firm right out of school allows you to learn from many other lawyers and can give you a broader perspective on different aspects of legal. In your own practice (or in a law firm in general) you want to be working on and building your book of business - rarely are clients going to fall into your lap with no relationship building on your end. When reaching out to a potential client, do your homework first. Try to un by BE THAT LAWYER

38 min listen

Michele Ross: Building Your Law Firm with Human Expertise and Great Systems: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Michele Ross discuss: Why patience and time are key to anything worthwhile. Avoiding repeated mistakes and moving forward with improvement. Business management tools to make your law firm more efficient. Building a great team that works toward the same vision. Key Takeaways: You will have to find your way forward from the mistakes you make - and you will make mistakes. Don’t let them keep you down. It is a balancing act and, as a law firm owner, the key is removing hats with delegation and technology. You cannot do everything all the time. Understanding your values will help make hiring decisions easier because you know who you are looking for, even if you haven’t met them yet. Ask your employees what their goals are - not just within the office, but outside of the office as well. "Be interested in what your employees can contribute beyond just work product. Make t by BE THAT LAWYER

36 min listen

Kerry Barrett: Secrets to Being Camera Ready for Lawyers: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Kerry Barrett discuss: Being on camera is a requirement - make it work for you. Public speaking and having a camera presence. Tips to do better with camera media content and presence. Performing and speaking to engage your audience. Key Takeaways: When speaking to a group, in person, or on camera, you do not want to fall into legal speak. You need to speak to who your audience (or client) is in a way that they understand. Look at the camera, not at your screen. It gives a connection with the audience that appears you’re looking directly at them. Your voice is what creates the connection. Make sure you use your voice to repeatedly bring the audience in. Preparation is key in your webinars. Know what your purpose is, know what your goal is, and keep your audience engaged from start to finish. "You want to have a very specific agenda, you want to have very specific language, and you wa by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

Adrian Mendoza: Sincerity and Qualification in Successful Networking: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Adrian Mendoza discuss: Flipping the script on sales to professional development. Spending your time in the best way for your skills and interests. The importance of qualifying questions and building the right relationships. Tips for networking effectively. Key Takeaways: Networking is about building relationships, not just about getting the business. It’s planting seeds to see what grows over time. In order to know what to give, you have to listen. Don’t be so focused on giving your pitch that you’re ignoring what the other person’s needs and concerns are. Ask the qualifying questions. If they are not the right fit for you, it would be a waste of your networking time. You can say no and it be kind. You may not be the right fit for someone, but you may be able to introduce them to someone who is. "If we believe that networking is about developing those relationships that by BE THAT LAWYER

32 min listen

Erik Reid: Changing the Image of International Hiring: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Erik Reid discuss: Why you should consider international hiring for your US-based company. What to consider in doing remote versus in-house staffing. The red flags to catch if you did make a wrong hiring decision. Changing the stigma around international hiring. Key Takeaways: Using an aptitude test can help you understand someone’s potential within your organization even before you understand if they are the right fit for your organization. Every role is different and different personalities will thrive in those different roles. Communication and clear instructions can give you amazing experiences with virtual staffing and help you delegate the things on your list that are not worth your hourly rate. Any role that can be worked remotely, can be worked internationally. "If you want to break staffing down into the simplest form, it's 50%. Are they able to do the job? Are they cognitivel by BE THAT LAWYER

31 min listen

Christina Martini: Recognizing Opportunities and Nurturing Authentic Networking Relationships: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Christina Martini discuss: How Tina pivoted from engineering to legal. Selling big law by increasing the stickiness factor through cross-selling. Minding your assets in networking and cross-marketing. Building your book of business authentically. Key Takeaways: The practice of law is not that different from having and nurturing the relationships in your life. Everything is all about relationships which are dynamic and require proactivity. Good business development, whether in a solo firm or in big law, requires a multi-pronged approach. Leverage existing clients, leverage your network, and talk to your peers. The right work for you is out there, but you’ve got to ask for it. Be prepared and have dynamic conversations with your potential clients. It will help build and nourish the relationship, but it will also create opportunities. As a woman, embrace who by BE THAT LAWYER

33 min listen

Josh Branch: Building Trust and Rapport with Clients: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Josh Branch discuss: Building trust with your network, clients, and prospective clients. Developing your relationships and reputation. The importance of preparedness to trust and likeability. Finding natural affinities for helping to build trust. Key Takeaways: Building a relationship without trust will not lead to successful, healthy places. Sometimes the truth is painful, but trust is built on honesty with everyone you’re talking to. Clients who have trust in their lawyer are more likely to have a great rapport and feel confident in their representation. People can tell when you’re feeding them a line and are not going to follow through. The key to trust is reliability and following through on those things you promise. "What you're demonstrating is that you committed to something and you executed on it. There's a connection that happens when people can really know they can count on you by BE THAT LAWYER

33 min listen

Robert Plotkin: Why Lawyers Should Write a Book: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Robert Plotkin discuss: Giving information away. Writing a lead generating book while maintaining your law practice. Benefits of writing a book above other kinds of content marketing. What to do before publication, during promotion, and after publication. Key Takeaways: Even if you gave someone your entire process, nobody will be able to execute like you do because you have value to bring to the situation. Break your book down into small, manageable bites. Also consider sharing some of the information as you go and get feedback as you go so it feels less monumental of a task. Having a good outline in place is crucial - it gives you opportunities to break your script into smaller tasks that can be tackled in your 15 or 20 free minutes. Have multiple ways of distributing your content - audio, digital, and print. People consume content in different ways, but you can also repackage that content in y by BE THAT LAWYER

36 min listen

Josh Blum & Dr. Andre Caruso: The Importance of Trust: In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Josh Blum, and Dr. Andre Caruso discuss: Mistakes attorneys make that fail to gain trust. Why trust matters and the different dimensions of trust. Ways we can quickly build trust. Making the right first impression. Key Takeaways: People hold how they feel about you higher than how competent you are. You do not always need to be in lawyer mode. Turn off the lawyer speak, be more authentic and human, and you will improve your trust and likeability. Put a little effort into building trust. You need to talk about more than the obvious or the weather. Treat people they way they want to be treated. It is your responsibility to adapt to their communication style to be more trusted. "When you can create some sort of connection with someone, it's going to help build that idea of trust. Even if it is just that subconscious thought of that connection." — Dr. Andre Caruso Find out more about the 10 Easy-to- by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

Jen Lee: Innovation in the Legal Industry: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jen Lee discuss: Breaking the mold of traditional legal molds within ethical guidelines. Legal models that are changing the game for attorneys. The growing demand for legal services in underserved communities and non-traditional markets. How COVID changed the legal landscape. Key Takeaways: The billable hour contributes to lawyer burnout and work-life imbalance as attorneys feel pressure to work long hours to pay off high student loans and meet law firm expectations. Some variations for fee models include flat fees, hybrid, unbundled services, subscription models, and passive income (such as a sponsored podcast, a course, a book, etc.). Part of your job as a lawyer is helping your clients accurately understand the costs of your services necessary to solve their problems. Turn off your lawyer brain when thinking about business development. What do you like solving? Build a business model around that. " by BE THAT LAWYER

30 min listen

Tom Dunlap: Scaling Your Law Firm with Business Experts: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Tom Dunlap discuss: Letting go of the old things to promote the new things. The power in relinquishing control. The two paths to scaling. Finding the right fit for your team, clients, and fees. Key Takeaways: Having your name on the door makes you the lightning rod for problems. It is not as big of a benefit as most lawyers think. If viable for your firm, consider bringing in non-lawyer team members who can help with the non-legal aspects of running a firm. You have to find the right fit clients in the right stage in the right scope. If some people don’t say ‘no’ to your fees, you’re charging way too little. "You went to law school to be a lawyer. The highest and best use of your time is the billable hour and getting clients and keeping them happy. If you want to manage a law firm, you should have professionals who work for you doing it." — Tom Dunlap Find out more about the 10 Eas by BE THAT LAWYER

35 min listen

Victoria Collier: Planning for the Future of Your Law Firm: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Victoria Collier discuss: Thinking about your law practice of the future. Selling a book of business versus an actual business. Balancing future needs with your current lifestyle. Key components of having an exit strategy and preparing your firm for sale. Technology that is supporting law firms to run better. Key Takeaways: A solo practice is an asset as a business itself, beyond the goodwill and book of business, when the practice is streamlined and built well. Everyone can build assets into their firm, even if they are a solo firm. Focus more on the net revenue, not the gross revenue, and you’ll be surprised to see how much your firm can grow and thrive. Clients don’t care about the name on the door as much as they just want their problem solved. "Gross revenue is not where the value is, that’s in the net revenue. If you're making decisions based on ‘I want to grow my gross rev by BE THAT LAWYER

35 min listen

Miriam Airington-Fisher: Be the Entrepreneur of Your Law Firm: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Miriam Airington-Fisher discuss: Building your business on your own or under a firm umbrella. Embracing an entrepreneurial mindset. Growing and scaling in different ways. Advice for those lawyers going out on their own. Key Takeaways: You get a higher return when you’re the one that you’re investing in. Even though we are all important in our own ways, we can still delegate to others. You do not need to be the person talking to every single person on every single issue. Take yourself out of the day-to-day equation. You can do that with technology, a small staff, or a large staff. Regardless of your goals, getting out of the whirlwind counts as scaling. There is never a perfect time to pull the trigger. Draw a line in the sand, bet on yourself, and go do it. "When you're an entrepreneur and you're in control, you can you can shape how the business looks." — Miriam Airington-Fis by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

Laura Sauter: Personal Branding and Authenticity: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Laura Sauter discuss: What branding really is and what it really means. Personal branding to stand out authentically. Building and protecting your reputation and brand. Reflecting on your personal brand and values to elevate your law practice. Key Takeaways: People hire lawyers, not just law firms. To stand out, you must have your own branding, not just that of the firm. You only know what your brand is when it is reflected to you by those who love you and those who hate you. Dig deep, understand yourself, and be you. That is your biggest differentiator. You don’t need everyone as a customer. You just need the right ones. "No matter what the company, no matter what the size, I'm still going to go through those core values and help those entities, the person or the firm, understand how they are unique within the plethora of offerings out there." — Laura Sauter Take the BE THAT LAWYER chall by BE THAT LAWYER

31 min listen

David Aaronson: Using the Universal Seven Principles for Successful Legal Marketing: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and David Aaronson discuss: Why sales has a bad reputation in the legal industry. Being human before selling. Properly utilizing the Universal Seven Principles of Persuasion. Understanding the emotional decision-making that happens before the intellectual decision-making. Key Takeaways: Sales has changed from hard selling to consultant selling. There is power in social proof and in having authority. What are you doing to build relationships and authority in your area of expertise? Look at what your competitors are doing and be an authority against those competitors. If they are creating lots of content online, you should be as well to compete with them. Do your research on those you want to build relationships with to create unity with something beyond the superficial. "Just because the seven principles are there, doesn't mean they're going to happen naturally, by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

Sarah Victory: Building Your Business Through Expert Speaking: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Sarah Victory discuss: Building your business without imploding. What to focus on whether you’re running a small or large firm. The biggest problems lawyers face when scaling. Getting business and leads from speaking and presentations. Key Takeaways: Become better in the face of hard challenges. Don’t wish your challenges were easier when you can get stronger. You can find great people, but you have to dare to do it. Do something brave every day to grow your business. Hire somebody before you think you need them. You can also look for people outside of the US and are not constrained by only those in your area. At speaking engagements, connect with people before and after. Network, connect, build relationships, and show your expertise. "I believe there's a form of marketing for everybody. And that usually is something you love to do." — Sarah Victory Take the BE THAT LAWYER chal by BE THAT LAWYER

36 min listen

Robert Friedman: Before there is Marketing, there is Positioning: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Robert Friedman discuss: Focusing on the client and what their needs are, both physical and psychographic. The five questions Robert asks each of his questions. Setting your aperture appropriately. Understanding your positioning and making it work for you. Key Takeaways: When you can position yourself precisely, you won’t attract everyone, but you will attract the right clients to your firm. You have to do both the strategy work and the research work to know that you’re landing in the right space with your branding. If your message is not resonating with your potential referral sources and clients, then workshop it. Ask for feedback and be willing to listen. You don’t want to spin your wheels when a simple change could bring business growth. Focus on what makes you unique and make sure that comes across to your clients and potential clients. "The number one way to different by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

Andrew Michaels: Showing Your Best Side: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Andrew Michaels discuss: Matching your branding and headshot to your firm and business goals. Opening the doors to consultation with your headshot. What every lawyer should have in their arsenal of headshots. AI headshots. Key Takeaways: For internal purposes, you should have a friendly-looking headshot. That may not be what you want for your public headshot. Different variations on your headshot can be used for different purposes in your branding, marketing, and social media. A good impression will work for you. But more than that, everyone deserves to have a professional photo of themselves that they love. A headshot is meant to create a human connection. Using AI removes that humanity from the picture. "We talk a lot about judging a book by its cover. You're not supposed to do that, but as human beings, that’s the way that we're wired. It's just science, at this point, that a good impression will by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

Niraj Chhabra: Planning for Your Law Firm’s Financial Future: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Niraj Chhabra discuss: How law firm financial planning is different from the average person. Building a relationship on education first with your financial advisor. Avoiding outgrowing your income. Understanding your expenses now to know what you need for the future. Thinking about and planning for long-term care. Key Takeaways: Attorneys need more than just retirement planning, but it is often overlooked. Your savings should increase in proportion to your income and everything else. If you think creatively, there are ways to use time and money to your advantage for the future that isn’t taxed. Everyone considers monthly costs, but many do not consider seasonal budget items like traveling expenses or holiday budgets. "Whether you make $100K per year or $1M per year you have the same limits on how much you can put into your 401K and defer on your taxes. So we got to find creativ by BE THAT LAWYER

33 min listen

Sean Klunder: Standing Out with Law Firm Marketing: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Sean Klunder discuss: Why law firms tend to run behind other types of businesses in marketing. Understanding your SEO strategy. Individual lawyer marketing versus law firm marketing. Alignment and consistency in messaging in all areas of your firm. Watch out for fool’s gold to ensure you’re swimming in the blue ocean. Key Takeaways: There is a difference between Marketing and marketing. Without a strategy, it is all just random acts of marketing. Sales patterns have changed over the last few years. People are taking themselves 60-70% through the sales cycle online digitally before ever contacting the law firm. Identify your unique differentiator. Use the three pillars to help identify that: what do you do, who do you help, and what makes you different. Be targeted to who you’re disseminating your message. Where are those targets digitally? Are you also there? "It is really important to hav by BE THAT LAWYER

35 min listen

Pamela DeNeuve: The Importance of Stress Reduction for Lawyers: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Pamela DeNeuve discuss: The importance of empathy, compassion, and a trusted listening ear. Why anxiety, stress, and depression often start in law school. What to do (and not to do) in the morning to have a better day. Overcoming the busyness and stress of being a lawyer. Key Takeaways: 11%, that’s 11 out of 100, lawyers are struggling with suicidal ideation. Please know, there is help out there and you are not alone. The conversation and culture need to change in the legal industry. While resources do exist, in many firms, there has been a stigma to any lawyer taking advantage of mental health resources. You must set yourself up for the next day, and that begins before you leave the office. Select what is going to be done first the following morning then there’s no question about what is going to happen. Do an hour and a half worth of work before you touch the phone or your email by BE THAT LAWYER

33 min listen

Marco Brown: Curating Relationships to Build Referrals and Make It Rain: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Marco Brown discuss: Changing your mindset to overcome limitations placed on you by yourself or your family. Leveraging the knowledge of those who came before you. Learn and implement the sales skills you didn’t learn in law school. Leveraging your attorney referral sources. Key Takeaways: Learn how to sell. Even before you are making it rain, you can turn a potential client into a client through sales and closing. You are not better than sales. As a lawyer, you sell high-level concepts (arguments, negotiations, etc.) every single day. Be aggressive with the sale when you are the right person to help the potential client because you know you can help them solve their problem. Not all referral sources are created equal. Question and qualify potential referral sources to understand how you can help them and they can help you. "Really successful people curate the people by BE THAT LAWYER

34 min listen

Ashley Robinson: Law Firm Marketing the Right Way: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Ashley Robinson discuss: Creating a life on purpose. Niching down your business to focus on who you want to work with. Where lawyers need help with putting their marketing money. Understanding what potential clients (and Google) are seeing when they look at your website. Working with your marketing company to know what’s happening now and what the future holds. Key Takeaways: Plan to be present in your relationships and in your business. Marketing isn’t bad, but a lot of nuance and strategy goes into understanding what you need for your firm specifically. You need to understand your goals before you start building your marketing plan. Does your client speak to your greatness? Or does it speak to your client’s pain points? "It's on me to bring you qualified leads, it's on you to be a good lawyer and to convert those leads into clients." — Ashley Robinson Email Steve at Steve@Fretzin.com by BE THAT LAWYER

36 min listen

Scott Simmons: Effective Business Development for Lawyers: In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Scott Simmons discuss: Selling and following up without upsetting people. Getting out of the race to the bottom and reframing old ways of thinking. Dueling banjos of business development. The power of “how can I help?” and becoming more than just the lawyer. Key Takeaways: What you’re really competing against is lawyer apathy, not other lawyers. You care more when they are your clients than you do when they are handed to you. There is a huge amount of fun in winning the work. Just start with 30 minutes. If you keep repeating that is going to be huge compared to doing nothing. Be nosy. If it is something or someone that interests you, keep asking questions. People love to talk about themselves and their business. You cannot serve everybody. When you narrow it down, your messaging becomes clear. "AI is just going to keep getting better and better and better. And this idea that lawyer by BE THAT LAWYER

36 min listen

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BE THAT LAWYER LIVE!: International Business Development for Lawyers with Clare Fanner and Catherine O’Connell Part 2

BE THAT LAWYER LIVE!: International Business Development for Lawyers with Clare Fanner and Catherine O’Connell Part 2

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