Leslie welcomes guest, Nancy Pearcey, author of The Toxic War on Masculinity: How Christianity Reconciles the Sexes, as well as Love Thy Body, The Soul of Science, Saving Leonardo, Finding Truth, and Total Truth. She is professor and scholar in residence at Houston Christian University. She has been quoted in The New Yorker and Newsweek, highlighted as one of the five top women apologists by Christianity Today, and hailed in The Economist as "America's preeminent evangelical Protestant female intellectual."
Dispelling Misconceptions about Christian Men:
Nancy shares the surprising claim from her book that evangelical Christian men have the lowest levels of abuse and divorce, contrary to common accusations.
The concept of toxic masculinity and its development over time is discussed.
Sociological studies within the last few decades have proven that these accusations are incorrect.
Empirical data reveals that evangelical Christian men - who truly practice their faith - exhibit loving behavior towards their wives, engage as active fathers, and have low rates of divorce and domestic violence.

Addressing the Divorce Myth:
Leslie raises the common perception that Christians have the same divorce rate as the rest of society.
Sociological research shows that dividing Christian men into two groups, regular churchgoers with authentic faith and nominal Christians, results in significantly different outcomes.
Wives of men with genuine Christian commitment report higher levels of satisfaction, engagement, and lower rates of divorce.

Understanding Competing Scripts for Masculinity:
Nancy explains the two competing scripts for masculinity that men often face, as identified by sociological research.
The "good man" script emphasizes honor, duty, integrity, sacrifice, and responsibility.
The "real man" script, commonly associated with toxic masculinity, promotes toughness, dominance, control, and self-centeredness.
Men often feel torn between these competing scripts and face societal pressures to conform to the "real man" script.

Historical Origins of Toxic Masculinity:
Nancy traces the roots of toxic masculinity back to the Industrial Revolution when men's roles shifted from family-oriented work to individual competition in secularized workplaces.
The change in the public square led to men being detached from moral and spiritual responsibilities, resulting in the development of negative traits.
Women were assigned the role of moral guardians responsible for taming men, which intensified the tension between men and women.

Stereotypes and Blame Game:
Leslie mentions how society often blames women for men's failures or misconduct.
Nancy discusses how women historically became burdened with the responsibility of keeping men's sexual desires in check and reforming their behavior.
The burden of blame placed on women for men's moral failures perpetuates wrong thinking and hinders the development of male responsibility.

Ignoring Men's Issues:
Nancy highlights how men, as a group, are facing challenges such as falling behind in education, employment, health, and life expectancy.
The social acceptability of expressing hostility towards men has created an environment where men's issues are often ignored.
Men's falling behind in various areas is linked to societal changes and the dismissal of men's struggles by feminist groups and others.

Secularization of Masculinity:
Nancy elaborates on the secularization of masculinity at different stages in history, revealing how men have been let off the hook morally and women have been burdened with responsibility.
She discusses the influence of Darwinism, which depicted men as naturally brutal beasts and women as morally superior.
The changing societal scripts affected men's behavior, distancing them from their traditional caretaking roles.

Conclusion:
Leslie and Nancy emphasize the need for Christians to understand the secular definition of masculinity to counter its negative effects.
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