The co-authors of a new paper discuss how to block illicit activity without turning neutral software into financial institutions. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Fountain, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Pandora, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.Trying to regulate DeFi is a huge challenge because in a truly decentralized system, there should be no centralized actors to make and enforce rules for. This could make combating illicit finance challenging since traditionally, regulation has been targeted at centralized intermediaries. Yet Rebecca Rettig, Chief Legal and Policy Officer at Polygon Labs; Michael Mosier, the co-founder of boutique law firm Arktouros; and Katja Gilman, senior lead for public policy at Polygon Labs, published a paper last week that proposes to do just that. Rettig and Mosier join Unchained to discuss what prompted them to write the paper, what the difference is between "onchain CeFi" and "genuine DeFi," how targeting high-risk wallets can be one part of the solution, how critical communications transmitters (CCTs) are another piece of the puzzle, and what next steps they are pursuing. Show highlights | The motivations behind their paper and Michael and Rebecca’s legal backgroundsWhy Michael views the Bank Secrecy Act as outdated in the context of DeFiHow critical KYC and AML compliance is for the integrity of DeFiWhat Rebecca identifies as the principal risks in the DeFi sectorWhy their proposal target the protocol layer for effective DeFi regulationHow "onchain CeFi" differs fundamentally from "genuine DeFi"Whether a decentralized protocol can be effectively regulated when controlled by a DAOHow if DeFi were to be classified as critical infrastructure by the Cyber and Information Security Agency (CISA), it would impact the sectorWhether the critical components of blockchain networks, such as RPCs, can be regulated effectivelyHow categorizing wallets based on risk can be one part of the solution to fighting illicit financeWhy Rebecca considers Tornado Cash a prime example of “genuine DeFi”What steps Rebecca and Michael plan to take next following the publication of their paperThank you to our sponsors!  Popcorn Network  |  Polkadot-Guests | Rebecca Rettig, Chief Legal and Policy Officer at Polygon LabsPrevious appearances on Unchained:Just a Coincidence? Coinbase and Polygon Lawyers See Bad Omens in SEC CrackdownKik’s Surprising Move in Its Lawsuit With the SECMichael Mosier, cofounder of Arktouros PLLCLinks | Previous coverage of Unchained on the topic: Could the Bank Secrecy Act Harm Crypto? Coin Center Thinks So Full paper: Genuine DeFi as Critical Infrastructure: A Conceptual Framework for Combating Illicit Finance Activity in Decentralized FinanceRebecca’s threadCoin Center: Broad, Ambiguous, or Delegated: Constitutional Infirmities of the Bank Secrecy ActTornado CashUnchained: Given the Sanctions on Tornado Cash, Is Ethereum Censorship Resistant?Illicit funds in crypto:Unchained: How Much Money Are Terrorists Actually Raising in Crypto?Rebecca Rettig, Chief Legal and Policy Officer at Polygon LabsMichael Mosier, Cofounder of Arktouros PLLC-Unchained Podcast is Produced by Laura Shin Media, LLC.  Distributed by CoinDesk. Senior Producer is Michele Musso and Executive Producer is Jared Schwartz.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.