In world where we’re constantly encouraged to want more, how do you find the courage to say no?Founder and CEO of 37signals (makers of Basecamp, HEY, and ONCE) Jason Fried joins the podcast for a wide-ranging conversation covering software products and services, saying ‘no’ to millions, learning drums, and more. Jason shares his unique perspectives on building and running a hugely successful software company while staying true to his values.Join us as we explore Jason's story and learn about:The motivation behind Basecamp's recent expansion into new products like email and calendar appsHow Jason and his co-founder have structured the company to maximize independence and avoid things they don't want to doThoughts on wealth and what he plans to do with the financial success of BasecampCurrent interests and passions outside of work, and what he would do if he couldn't run Basecamp anymoreBooks and favorite productsWhether you're a tech entrepreneur or simply fascinated by the career of one of the industry's most unconventional and opinionated leaders, Jason's experiences and philosophies are sure to challenge and inspire you. Tune in for an honest and spontaneous discussion touching on the deepest questions in life and business.Resources MentionedDrumeoDecent Espresso Machine1978 Porsche 928Books: The Old Man and the Sea, The Overstory, Rabbit is RichHey CalendarOnceCampfire‍Chapters00:00 - Introduction2:20 - Inspiration Behind Hey Calendar3:47 - Fantastical vs. Hey Calendar4:55 - What Keeps Jason Going7:24 - Why Hey Calendar Caps at $999:09 - Jason’s Commitment to Independence12:59 - Limits to Improvement and Acceptance15:56 - Jason’s Plans on Growing His Business19:12 - Learning to Trust CEO Hires20:59 - Why Jason Decided to Build New Products After 10 Years24:21 - Changing Your Mind & Balancing Growth and Maintenance28:06 - Keeping Businesses Simple32:20 - What Jason Does With His Money36:28 - The Courage to Close A Business39:42 - The Burden of Wealth: Philanthropy and Responsibility42:43 - Finding Joy in Spaces and Experiences45:11 - Alternate Career Paths Jason is Drawn To48:01 - The Future and Existential Worries52:56 - Growing Old, the Younger Generation, and Life59:27 - Things Jason Has Been Loving Lately62:49 - Embracing Fiction: The Power of Storytelling? Connect with Jason:Twitter/X: @jasonfriedLinkedIn: @jason-fried37signals: https://37signals.com/ ? Connect with Andrew:Twitter/X: @awilkinson (exclusive monthly AMAs for subscribers)LinkedIn: @awilkinsonWebsite: https://www.neverenough.com/Sign up for Andrew's weekly newsletter