The biotic pump theory has been controversial in the climate science community ever since Anastassia Makarieva and Victor Gorshkov published their paper about it to the journal Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics in 2010. If true, the theory sheds light on how the interior forests of vast continents influence wind and the water cycles that supply whole nations, flipping traditional hydrological and atmospheric science on its head. Anastassia Makarieva joins this episode to discuss the theory and its implications for future climate modeling with co-host Rachel Donald. Want more? Read a related Amazon-specific interview with Makarieva and Antonio Nobre here. Love this conversation? Please share it with a friend! And if you really enjoy the Mongabay Newscast, please visit www.patreon.com/mongabay to pledge a dollar or more to keep the show growing. Mongabay is a nonprofit media outlet, and all support helps! See all our latest news from nature's frontline at Mongabay's homepage, mongabay.com, or follow Mongabay on any of the social media platforms for updates. Please send your ideas and feedback to submissions@mongabay.com. Image: Physicist Anastassia Makarieva co-developed the biotic pump theory of how forests direct the movement of moisture. Image ZED/Grifa Filmes. --- Timecodes (00:00:00) Introduction (00:02:41) Understanding the Biotic Pump Theory (00:09:38) Tipping Points (00:15:31) The Climate Regulating Function of Ecosystems (00:25:51) Lagging Behind the Data (00:33:20) Building a Different Climate Model (00:41:04) Addressing the Controversy (00:45:41) Territory, Boundaries and Water (00:52:13) Credits