Perfectly hidden depression can end in tragedy.I don’t quite remember when Penny Gray and I first talked. It was after 2019 when PHD was published. But not long after.She’s the widow of a man, Dave, who tragically fit the rubric of perfectly hidden depression. She tells the story in this interview about how she happened upon the term "perfectly hidden depression" when she was seeking some kind of understanding about the “why” of her husband’s suicidal death. I am honored to share her story with you and could think of absolutely no better person to feature on our 400th episode.My respect for Penny is immense. She’s fighting severe kidney disease now on top of everything else, but has a passion to tell Dave's story. You’ll hear just how hard it was for her and her children as one minute, she was texting back and forth with her husband who seemed to be having a "moment" but saying he was ‘fine’, then killed himself 15 minutes after finishing a text to her."What kept you from revealing your pain?" What exactly kept Dave from revealing his pain? She’ll talk about what she’s pieced together, while at the same time, she’s still reeling from questions and emotions that she deals with every day. Her grieving family is left to try to understand, "What was so hard that you had to kill yourself?" But there’s no real answer. Just speculation. Wonder. And maybe a sense of one or two things that, with time, are becoming more clear.I’m truly honored to introduce you to Penny Gray.Click here for International Suicide HotlinesYou can hear more about this and many other topics by listening to my podcast, SelfWork with Dr. Margaret Rutherford. Subscribe to my website and receive my weekly newsletter including a blog post and podcast! If you’d like to join my FaceBook closed group, then click here and answer the membership questions! Welcome!My book entitled Perfectly Hidden Depression is available here! Its message is specifically for those with a struggle with strong perfectionism which acts to mask underlying emotional pain. But the many self-help techniques described can be used by everyone who chooses to begin to address emotions long hidden away that are clouding and sabotaging your current life.And there’s another way to send me a message! You can record by clicking below and ask your question or make a comment. You’ll have 90 seconds to do so and that time goes quickly. By recording, you’re giving SelfWork (and me) permission to use your voice on the podcast. I’ll look forward to hearing from you!Photo by Sebastian Palomino.   Our Sponsors:* Check out Happy Mammoth and use my code SELFWORK for a great deal: happymammoth.com* Check out Paired: paired.com/SELFWORKAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands